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The widely held norm of schooliness

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novice - member
36 posts
"Occasionally the problem you"re dealing with stems from long-held and widely shared norms. Virtually everyone has done the same thing for years—even generations." (page 154) I think this is an accurate statement with respect to schools. As I've said elsewhere, school today is essentially the same as when my father went to school early in the last century. And there have been copious reports on the inappropriateness of school as we know it in the 21st century. Check out this post for a good listing of them with links: http://www.dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2008/05/so-what-if-scho.html

Yet, there are many who will not talk seriously about re-creating the learning environment. And it is one of those widely shared norms and experience that virtually all have had for many generations. In the same paragraph (last sentence) on page 154, the authors indicate that "Changes in behavior must be preceded by changes in the public discourse".

It seems to me that this is one of the best things schools and educators could promote—serious and civil public discourse about the future. Why not have quarterly discussions about skills needed for the 21st century? Why not post articles dealing with these issues on the school or district website? And if not the articles the links to the articles? What do we want our children to experience in school? What are the elephants we are not talking about? Check out this post (sorry the link function doesn't work for me: http://learningreimagined.com/2008/07/public-confidence-in-public-schools-on-the-skids/ to see some really frightening numbers.

For me, one of the huge elephants we don't talk about are ineffective (or worse) educators and how to show them the door. By educator I mean principals, teachers and central office people. While I've seen some teachers that are ineffective, hurtful, and discouraging, I've seen and experience more than a few principals and central office people that were the same. And while we're at it, the same could be said of board members. So the issue isn't just a teacher issue.

Another elephant in the room for me is the lack of seriousness that we approach reform with. Look, we lose 50% of new teachers and 33% of our kids drop out and generally people don't see the hemorrhage for what it is. We can't sustain a profession, learning environments, and a system like that. Yet, we blithely think that the way to the future is recasting curriculum, or changing methods or firing bad teachers while the main structure of the whole enterprise is unchanged. Surely, that's crazy—doing the same things and expecting different results.

I know people respond to ideas like this by saying that schools are not going away. Maybe physical schools—the place of school—won't change, but surely schooliness is injurious to a whole generation of students who will live in a world we can't imagine. We damn well ought to begin the conversation.

I apologize for the length of the post.
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Skip Olsen
regular - member
62 posts

I really think the last paragraph of your post sparked something for me. I am not so sure that if we don't make some very needed changes schools as we know them may very well go away. There are more and more virtual options for schooling that are being accessed regularly. I think colleges may see the effects before k-12 systems. They may already be feeling the effects. They certainly have done more in the past few years to make access easier for their students and tailor programs towards their needs than what has been done in k-12 schools. I think the slowest to respond from what I have seen in my adult years has been high schools. Elementary schools, in many cases, have done some great things in terms of change.  I have heard the saying that elementary teachers care about their kids, middle school  teachers care about eachother, high school teachers care about their subjects and (please don;t take offense) professors care about their own little personal. research project.

We are the influencers.As the book says, if we use our skills effectively, we have the power to change everything.  

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David Keane
novice - member
36 posts
"I really think the last paragraph of your post sparked something for me. I am not so sure that if we don't make some very needed changes schools as we know them may very well go away."

I haven't thought of this and I think you might be right on. In my city, I see more and more charter schools, home schooling, and students opting for other districts via open enrollment. Furthermore, I think you're right on re: elementary schools. What I learned from your post is that I have to more explicit and not paint schools with the same brush.

Thanks.
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Skip Olsen
novice - member
30 posts

Skip, doesn't this conversation remind of the point Clay Shirky made in Here Comes Everybody. He was talking about Scribes and how the end came for them via the printing press. They didn't know, and they actually argued against the printing press. Sort or like teachers arguing against virtual education. It's already here, it already happened. So, figure out how to be a part of it or fade away. That's the choice, whether teachers, unions, etc. agree or support it.

That train has left the station.

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regular - member
62 posts

My next comment is really more sarcasm than anything.  I think I have a social studies teacher in the last school I taught in that was unaware that being a scribe was no longer a career option. His idea of a lesson was kids copying what he had written on an overhead into a notebook he than spent time ensuring reflected exactly what he had written. I tried to explain to him that we now had photocopy machines so this was no longer a real marketable skill, but he insisted that this was an effective way of teaching. What was remarkable was the fact that he made very few comments duing many of these sessions. I was pleased when he decided to seek the greener pastures of retirement, but saddened knowing that he had sucked the passion from learning from countless students throughout his career.

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David Keane
novice - member
36 posts
@Rob  What an astute observation. I think you're right. I think educators have confused schools and learning, seeing them as synonymous when they are not. I wish there were more artists and craftsmen in schools. And David's comment below is evidence. I, too, am sorry for those students who have been turned off--and I'm sorry for our country.
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Skip Olsen
novice - member
24 posts
I agree that ineffective teachers, teacher burnout, and student drop out rates are among the biggest "elephants" that need to be dealt with.  I would add another elephant to the list.  I think that the content based curriculum that we've been teaching for generations is a silly laundry list of trivia items.  I would like to see a skills-based curriculum that allows students more choice about the learning that they want to pursue.
novice - member
36 posts
I agree. And I'd like to see more real world work--problems that can be thought about and figured out. I really like the idea of Ted Sizer of performance, i.e. report, demonstration, a creation, an explanation about what was learned by the student and why it is important. What difference did or does this learning make? What's the next step? I do like your phrasing—"a silly laundry list of trivia items."
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Skip Olsen
novice - member
24 posts
I'm not sure what the next step is.  I fear that the current system is so entrenched, that no real alterations will be made until something catastropic happens.  For all the talk about dissatisfaction with schools, I've read that while most polls show that people [at least the people who respond to polls] are troubled by education "in general", they usually respond positively when asked about the school that their child attends.  If this is true than we shouldn't be surprised by the glacially slow pace of change. 

Frankly, I think education reformers have failed to offer a coherent alternative to the current system.  I think charter schools are a great opportunity for experiementation and offer many children great opportunities to learn.  I also think that their success lies in their limited application.  The forces that resist change, including most parents, are able to rest peacefully knowing that no one is going to try anything silly at their child's school. 

I am sounding pessimistic, but I do believe that we have the power to influence change.  I just wonder if we can influence change without a detailed vision of what our end goal is--something more tangible than "success for all".  Does each person in this discussion group have a detailed idea of what education should be?  How similar are our ideas at the implementation level?  If we do agree, how do we communicate our vision to others?  If we don't agree, how can we expect anyone else to listen to us?
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